Todd Bentley gets even more violent

In  42: The Todd Bentley revival I said one of my key concerns about Todd Bentley was violence, at that point I had only seen Todd Bentley boasting about violence he had committed.

Now thanks to this mans ego you can actually see him kicking kneeing [Update: see comment from Peter Kirk below and my response] someone in the stomach when that person is suffering from cancer of the colon. I literally could not believe my eyes. The man collapses on the floor in pain.

See it at YouTube - WORST ASSAULT at Todd Bentley Raging Revival part 3. Note that "LocalPastor" has added text over the top of the images (don't know why, we don't need editing to know this is wrong).

Naturally it seems there is no testimony that this man has been healed (personally I would think there ought to be a law suit).

I don't promise not to write about Todd Bentley in the future. But I can say that my doubts have been removed.

Scripture is clear that there can be false prophets and false signs and wonders. I do believe that Todd Bentley is a false prophet.

A relevant scripture reference is Matthew 24:24 (in context). Or you could look at 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. Yes I am aware that in both these are signs of the end times, sadly there have been cases of this throughout Christian history - so it may not mean Christ is returning imminently. As for myself I believe in living  simultaneously preparing for him to come today and not for a 1,000 years. In that way I attempt to make each day count yet in a sustainable way in case Christ does not come immediately.

I have now written several posts on Todd Bentley you can find the others at:

• 42: The teaching at Revival Fires, Dudley.
• 42: The Todd Bentley revival.
• 42: Todd Bentley and prosperity.
• 42: More on Todd Bentley.
• 42: Top Bentley post.
• 42: Todd Bentley links.
• 42: 10 things I believe about the Holy Spirit.

Comments

[caron]

Hi,

I am so, so very grateful you have concluded this. I, too, have lost loved ones to cancer. In fact, I have a colon condition myself and this would have flattened me. I can barely take it when my daughter kicks her leg over me when playing, etc...

God bless you, brother - and all of yours.

I may have posted this before, but I really urge you to watch the "demo" on Justin Peters web site... http://www.justinpeters.org
Its excellent and he comes highly recommended by my pastor, Dr. John MacArthur.

[Note from Dave. I have corrected the address of Justin Peters site from .com to .org]

[Dave]

Caron,

Thanks for the comment and link. I have watched the demo and agree with the teaching on Word of Faith

[Peter Kirk]

Dave, the false prophet here is you! You state that the guy has been kicked when in fact he has been kneed. You are taking the word of someone who is deliberately distorting what is happening to make it seem worse than it really is. Afterwards the guy is smiling, a bit bemused but smiling.

Also why was this not recorded from the proper Lakeland video feed which remains available?

[Dave]

Peter,

OK I admit it I got it wrong. Todd Bentley did not kick this man with colon cancer (that was an old lady), instead he kneed him.

Oh well, that is all right then, nothing to worry about. Kneeing someone in the stomach when they have colon cancer is of course no problem at all!

The man is smiling! a) he says he is now in pain where he was not before b) I would be trying to do anything to keep on the right side of someone who has just kneed me so that they would not do it again.

Peter, to me there are a number of things we need to add up here:

- Todd Bentley as a teenager was found guilty of assault (I think the charge was sexual assault)

- Todd Bentley became a Christian

- Todd Bentley has a healing ministry in which he kicks people, knees people, leg drops them, bounces their legs on stage & knocks them back several feet.

- So far the only verification available that these people have been healed by this process is Todd Bentley's word (do you have any independent documentation for any of the above healings? Nobody seems to be pointing to any).

I agree that it would be better to use the lakeland feed, but I don't know how to create clips from within the ustream feed and I am not willing to watch it for hours and then not be able to link to specific clips.

I agree the extra text is distracting and not helpful - but are you suggesting that the sound track and video stream behind it has been counterfeited?

[Peter Kirk]

Thanks for the correction, Dave. I withdraw the charge against you of being a false prophet - the false prophet here is "LocalPastor" or whoever added the deceptive subtitles.

I don't think it is right for Christians to bring up things which someone has done before they were a Christian, also as a juvenile. I will reply to your other points on my own blog shortly.

[Mike]

Oh dear. I am amazed at the courage of people who denounce others in the ministry as false prophets. All I can say is you must be very sure before the Lord to make such a claim on the Internet. I seem to remember that Smith Wigglesworth was also quite violent in his healing ministry. Would you also denounce him as a false prophet? As for proof of healing, you don't seem to have proof or evidence either way, but you seem to be assuming that this man wasn't healed. If he was healed would you be convinced and forgive the violence and if not, are you claiming that Todd must have a 100% track record of healings in order to be a true man of God?

[Dave]

Mike, I could equally say that I am amazed that people are jumping onto something like this. I guess that when people are thirsty they are willing to hope that anything might be water.

Sorry but I feel the onus is on those who are claiming the Holy Spirit is healing through violence to present proof.

No of course I am not expecting 100% healing. But I do expect 100% no harm!

I have said before that I will reconsider if there is evidence - but how long do we have to wait for these cases to be followed up?

If you refer to my other posts you will see that violence is not my only concern, not the only problematic issue.

[joe]

This is getting curiouser and curiouser.

Given that Todd Bentley claims to use extreme violence, I don't understand why anyone is attempting to argue that he doesn't (or that he knees someone in the stomach rather than kicks).

[Peter Kirk]

Joe, what is your evidence for "Todd Bentley claims to use extreme violence"? It turns out from what you yourself posted on my blog that one of the cases of Todd knocking someone to the ground was in self-defence from a knife-wielding crazy man, and the other cases were insignificant in terms of violence and/or immediately led to healing.

[Joe]

As I said and repeat ad nausueum, the evidence is Todd Bentley's own words on his own website. I put it to you that any logical person would read that and believe Mr Bentley was suggesting that he uses extreme violence, including wrestling moves, on people he claims to heal.

[Peter Kirk]

But, Joe, you quoted on my blog words from Todd's website (thanks for giving me the URL for the first time) which do not prove your case. Since I assume that you selected the strongest evidence you could find, I can only conclude that your case is not provable. I do not accept that a wrestling move which does not cause pain is "extreme violence".

[Joe]

Dave, I'm sorry, I need to go outside and kick something.

Peter, are you being deliberately obtuse? I posted that link THREE times in the comments of your blog. Todd says he uses violence on people, what more do you need?

[Peter Kirk]

Joe, my apologies, you had indeed posted the link on my blog. The problem is that links in comments don't show up well on my screen.

Yes, Todd admits that on one occasion, and one occasion only, he was violent on stage - when a "totally demon possessed man" threatened him with a knife! Now Dave, as a consistent pacifist, might have stood there and allowed the man to stab him, but I really don't think we can condemn Todd for defending himself.

[Jon]

If this is so bad, why is the guy smiling at the end after he has been kicked???

Most Christians would not tolerate Jesus today either, too out there, too gross (spitting in people's mouths), not well dressed enough...etc.

[Dave]

"Now Dave, as a consistent pacifist, might have stood there and allowed the man to stab him"

Dave would love to be a really consistent pacifist and so would love to have the strength to follow Jesus in that way.

As we are talking of responses to violence then how about Luke 22:49-51. Jesus heals the person who came for him with a sword.

Let us remember the Trinity. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both fully God, the Holy Spirit will not act in a way contradictory to Jesus.

My prayer is for me to be like Jesus.

[Dave]

Joe, I'm with you.

Jon, yes most Christians would not tolerate Jesus. We would struggle with his acceptance of those we exclude, with his finding faith outside organised religion, with his non violence. That does not make violence acceptable.

PS Your idea of gross needs better exegesis, you need to read about the culture of the time. Spit was understood to be a healing agent, nothing gross about it at all.

[tc robinson]

An exclusive interview with Mr. Roger, the man in the famous Todd Bentley video

[Dave]

TC,

Interesting, but waiting for the whole story before commenting. The actual post is here

There is also a story in the Miami Herald who tried to follow up on a list of verified healings from Todd but were unable to get any Doctors to speak to them. They report that

"The criticism has grown so acute that Bentley addressed it directly on stage earlier this month. He said he has used those extreme methods only about 20 times in 10 years of preaching, and those cases were taken out of context. Each person was healed, not hurt, Bentley insisted."

[tc robinson]

Thanks, Dave. I'll have to keep my eyes and ears open too.

[Judith]

Todd Bentley has left Lakeland for an indefinite time. This happened the day after ABC Nightline program determined that none of the evidence for healing was verifiable.

Bentley was abused in multiple ways through the age of fifteen, served jail time, appointed himself to the ministry. Who nurtured this child? Where and when did he feel safe? How is it possible to think he would become a stable, productive adult? Is it possible he might use a learned strategy and retreat to an imaginary safe place known since his childhood - his imagination?

Finding Jesus saved him but who loved him enough to support him through long-term counselling and healing? Christian love does not end with a prayer for salvation and forgiveness. It is a long commitment to walk with a needy person until they can walk on their own.

I do not like this Lakeland phenomenona, However, I have observed the results of child abuse in the lives of adults and can say abuse is long-lasting, life-altering. Abuse does not produce stable adults. I think that what I observe in Todd Bentley, revival leader, relates to what he learned as a child without love and stability. He needs help not criticism, love not anger. Criticize his promotors who used him for their own reasons. Criticize the Christians who came expecting manisfestation, signs, wonders...They wanted what Todd has. Think about that.

[Peter Kirk]

Judith, have you read Todd's recently published autobiography? I haven't. But you might well find in it the answers to your questions, if you really want answers rather than to lead your readers' thinking. I consider your conclusion "He needs help", coming from someone who has apparently only observed his stage persona and knows only a few highlights of his past, to be patronising to the point of being insulting. If he needs help, that is a matter between him and those (not himself!) who appointed him to ministry, have given him long term support, and now pastor him.

[Lee]

We can argue until the cows come home, we always need to look at the whole picture.

I've done this in my research and you can learn more there including a reply from God TV and my comments on that as well.

http://www.4hurtingchristians.com/is_this_lakeland_florida_revival_with_todd_bentley_on_god_tv_genuine.html

[Peter Scarlett]

This man who was kicked has been interviewed on http://newleaven.com and he reports a significant medical change for the better, and greater than he had ever seen before, (but not yet a complete healing) following.

I just read that today. I suggest posters check this out.

[Gypsy David]

Why are we to accept the old stories about Smith Wigglesworth,any more than we should believe the outrageous claims of Todd Bentley.Charismatics are always doing this,putting people up on a pedestal..without really checking out the facts for proof.We are kept in awe of William Branham,A.A.Allan.and the like...but is there any actual proof or just old anecdotal tales.It made me sick to my stomach,to see Bentley kicking that man with cancer.My beloved father died of cancer,and I would have personally killed anyone who would have dared do such a thing to him...

[Ed Burn]

He kicked someone, oh no call the ambulance...hope none of u work in public services or armed forces...u crack me up gayers.

[Dave]

Ed,

I have no idea what you mean.