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    « Adrian Warnock on Limited Atonement | Main | Cheer up stuff »

    Friday, February 13, 2009

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    PamBG

    OK, Yeah. That set my blood boiling. I don't even like the concepts of 'masculine' and 'feminine'.

    Have to write a sermon today but might get back to this if I have time.

    Martin Jack

    I found more of this manly men ethos reading Driscoll's recent blog entry I Need Nine Hundred Men: Calling All Potential Church Planters and Multi-Site Campus Pastors. Here he describes the kind of church planters and pastors he is after:

    We are deadly serious about the great commission and loading all guns to storm hell with the gospel of grace. And we need more men. Nine hundred men. Not boys—men. Real men. Men who care less about padding their resume and getting their vacation days than about seeing lives transformed and legacies altered for generations. We need men who love their wives, pastor their children, submit to Scripture, bleed the gospel, and have steel in their spine, love in their hearts, and the lost in their sights.

    Calling all hunter-gatherers!

    Peter Kirk

    Surely "quit you like men" means what most men in Britain have done: leave the church!

    But I'm not sure the word really does "literally" mean "be men". This is probably the etymological fallacy: the verb is derived from the noun meaning "man" or "husband", but that doesn't imply that its meaning is directly that. As most modern translators have realised, the real literal meaning of this verb, at least in this context, is indeed something like "be courageous".

    PamBG

    "Storm hell with the gospel of grace" is not only a contradiction in terms, it's what Jesus didn't do.

    Have I misunderstood or is Driscoll is preaching the same message that The Tempter preached to Jesus when he told Jesus to throw himself off the Temple and take control of the powers of the world?

    Dave

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Peter, I am thinking of writing on the issue of men leaving the church as I recently heard a different perspective.

    I took the "literal" meaning from my interlinear Bible.

    Peter Kirk

    Dave, I would like to see your thoughts on why men leave the church. I know it is not really because they have been reading and misunderstanding this verse in KJV! Maybe it is partly because the church has too much of a feminine ethos. That is not to support Driscoll, but to say that the church should be balanced in these matters. My own church is actually quite well balanced between men and women, which I think is because of the leaders' care not to be too feminine, or masculine.

    PamBG

    Given that most congregations are run by men and that denominational rulership in all denominations in the UK is majority male, how does 'the church in general' succeed in having a mainly feminine ethos? It must be the male leaders who are creating this, no?

    Chris E
    Calling all hunter-gatherers!

    Anyone evaluating the ministry of a 38 year old pastor who, by his own admission, has lots to learn, has to evaluate him as someone who is work in progress.

    There is a lot to critique about Driscoll's approach. On the other hand, Driscoll's church doesn't seem to have any problem attracting men, especially young men - if you claim it's for all the wrong reasons you at least acknowledge that different things attract men.

    If men aren't attracted to a church, is that because God wills them not to be saved? Or is it that those churches aren't being completely faithful to their call to the Great Commission?

    Peter Kirk

    "Calling all hunter-gatherers!"

    Chris, you can drop "gatherers" part. In this anthropological model or stereotype the women are the gatherers and the men are only the hunters.

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