The end of Mark Driscoll?

Several different views of a video by Mark Driscoll. First the video (warning this includes distressing content)

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Now for some commentary

• Life on Mars Hill « Bartholomew’s Notes on Religion
• i see nutjob: mark driscoll’s psychic visions and extrasensory perception « XKV8R: The Official Blog of Dr. Robert R. Cargill
• Mark Driscoll Officially Declares, “I’m Delusional” «
• Pyromaniacs: Pornographic Divination
• beyond the pale » “rebel” pastor mark driscoll “sees things”

My thoughts:

1. Christiian discernment (see a bunch of definitions from Google) is about seeking to understand God's will, about discerning the difference between good and evil and truth and falsehood. Mark Driscoll is mis-using the term to refer to visions of past events in peoples lives (often that they apparently knew nothing of). His claims have nothing to do with Christian Discernment and ignore the demands of Scripture to test gifts of the Spirit. See Romans 12:1-2, Philippians 1:10 and  1 Thessalonians 5:19-22. See this post assessing Driscoll by the views of Tim Challis.
2. This is not Christian pastoral care. If you did discover abuse or adultery then telling people in the ways Driscoll claims would be hateful. Even if he were right in what he claims to know (which given the above I sincerely do not believe) his behaviour towards the survivors is dangerous, cruel and unloving. I suspect that in the UK it is potentially illegal, I would have thought that if nothing else it would be a significant problem for UK safeguarding due to the way it would undermine any legal proceedings.
3. This is not Christian teaching. The content and presentation are inappropriate, it would never be right to share so many details should not be shared (my guess is that people within the Church will be able to recognise some of the people referred to). The presentation is close to pornography. To claim that he is different to TV preachers is a deceitful when made to a video camera on a clip that will be uploaded to Youtube.

What to do?

I cannot see any alternative but to call for Mark Driscoll to be removed from his role at Mars Hill. However, this is unlikely to succeed given his tight control over the elders of that Church.

As far as the UK is concerned I would hope that all Churches could unite in making it clear that this is not Christian discernment, not Christian teaching, not Christian practice and firmly reject this.

While I reject this teaching and example I do not wish to throw babies out with the bathwater. Unlike several of the blogs I have linked to I am not cessationist. I do believe that the Holy Spirit is at work today. However, not in ways that adopt Biblical terms and use them for behaviour wholley unrelated to their use in Scripture.

I would be very interested to know what others think of this, please let me know.

Comments

[Crimperman]

Almost every time I see/hear something from Mark Driscoll, it sets alarm bells off in my head.

"I am not a guru. I don't talk about this stuff" he says one third through a clip of him...erm...talking about it.

Also the way he describes the confronted abuser reacting seems somewhat out of sync with what is usually reported to happen when someone is confronted by such accusations.

Above all else the key thing that is missing here seems to be humility. I didn't hear him mention God very often, only the Spirit who he seems to have turned into some kind of Star Wars-esque force.

[Chris H]

As you have pointed out Dave, this is not the gift of discernment. At a push it could come under a gift of knowledge but even that raises a few questions. Such as why the Spirit would seek to act through a third party instead of revealing this 'truth' to the person affected?

And even if it were a truthful gift then the way it is played out it becomes abusive in itself. Pastoral care doesn't even get a look in. Verging on cultish behaviour and control freakery.

[EdwardBGreen]

A great round up of responses.

I have thrown my own hat in:

http://www.future-shape-of-church.org/?e=54

[Auntie Doris]

Quite appropriate he has Mickey Mouse on his TV shirt!

[Auntie Doris]

T-shirt I mean!

[Priest]

Hey didn't Jesus do something similar with the Samaritan woman who had 5 husbands?

'I cannot see any alternative but to call for Mark Driscoll to be removed from his role at Mars Hill. However, this is unlikely to succeed given his tight control over the elders of that Church.'

How do you know this?

[Dave]

Priest,

No the treatment by Jesus was completely different. He treated the woman with respect & dignity. He did not condemn her, he did not challenge her in front of her partner, he did not go into pornographic detail for others.

Plus there are other readings of that text which are worth considering. I think that in some of those the husbands are understood as standing for the people worshipping other Gods.

Just look around google on the elders of Mars Hill and you will see a long history.

[Priest]

"Plus there are other readings of that text which are worth considering. I think that in some of those the husbands are understood as standing for the people worshipping other Gods."

And you call Driscoll a nut job who distorts scripture?!?! lol

And strongly criticizing someone for something you've read on google is a bit surprising coming from someone of your intellectual calibre

[Tel]

What he is describing is a fairly classic spiritual gift of 'knowledge'. I have heard numerous Christians describe how they might use this gift, including definite 'non-nutjobs' such as David Watson.

Ananaias and Sapphira are a good example in the NT. That was a very public condemnation.

Driscoll sounds like he is teaching others about how this gift works. Not sure that this is a sacking offence, Dave.

[Dave]

Tel,

What Mark Driscoll describes is nothing like Ananaias/Sapphira. Acts 5 does not tell how Peter knew and Peter does not share salacious comments on their sex life.

Mark Driscoll says that when he gets up to preach he sees scenes from rape and abuse when he looks at the congregation.

a) Does that sound like the Holy Spirit preparing him for preaching?

b) Is it likely that the Holy Spirit will give a man pornographic visions when he is already obsessed with interfering in people's sex lives (cf his previous teaching on Song of Solomon which included detailed demands as to what a woman should do for her husband).

I am not in anyway arguing against spiritual gifts. However, they have to be tested and they have to be compatible with the fruits of the spirit - this is not.

Contrast it with the way Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery as recorded by John. Driscoll's approach is more like handing out stones and tell people to use them.

[Dave]

Priest,

And you call Driscoll a nut job who distorts scripture?!?! lol

I quite agree that I deserve a lol for the poor quality of my memory. However, I have remembered the book and will give you a proper reference when I get a moment at home.

To say I distort scripture because I tell about an alternative understanding of a text from an academic book of theology is quite bizarre. You seem to be quite certain that Jesus never teaches in an allegorical way, maybe a look at the parable of the sower in Matthew 13 would be helpful.

And strongly criticizing someone for something you've read on google is a bit surprising coming from someone of your intellectual calibre

Wow. What an odd reading. I suggested you use google to look up a variety of sources so that you can form a reasoned view. There are plenty of newspaper articles and personal stories that you can find and then you can judge for yourself. It is not a matter of using google as a source but using google to find sources (that is afterall what a search engine is for). I did this a number of years ago when I was evaluating what I had heard elsewhere.

[stacey]

I've was involved in a controlling charismatic church for several yrs. This kind of thing goes on all the time. I can tell you for a fact that not all of it is coming from God.