Some catch-up

A variety of things I have been meaning to blog about but have not given up on properly doing so. All are worth reading:

Wow no more open tabs. Fantastic.

7 thoughts on “Some catch-up

  1. Peter Kirk

    Dave, I agree with you that getting rid of women in leadership is a disaster for mission. But fortunately this is not one of the lessons which Alastair of Obscene Beauty wants to bring from Mars Hill to Edinburgh.
    I hope you are not objecting to his call for men to get involved in “warrior prayer”, even if we Sassenachs don’t exactly appreciate this being illustrated by Braveheart William Wallace.

  2. Dave Warnock

    I am glad to hear that you think I have misunderstood Alastair. I was worried by the combination of
    a) only citing examples (Mars Hill and Terry Virgo) who are against women in leadership
    b) talk of Warrior Prayer and only mentioning Men. I find that reminiscent of the video Mark Driscoll recently did in that graveyard – for me that appeared to rewrite the gospel in a very violent way.
    I have now read more of Alastair’s writing about Mars Hill and am somewhat less negative.

  3. PamBG

    Contrary to what I perceive to be the ‘peer group pressure’ in the Methodist church, I don’t actually disapprove of all-male support groups in church, nor of all-female support groups in church of which there are of course many.
    However, it’s my understanding that the whole POINT of these ‘male-only prayer-warrior groups’ amoungst those who believe in male headship is to raise up men who are conscious of their biblical mandate (sic) to take headship over women. The whole POINT is to eventually get rid of not just curch female leaders but the so-called ‘feminisation’ of the church. (mediation and contempation and other ‘touchy feely’ things?)

  4. Peter Kirk

    Thanks, Dave. I don’t think Alastair is promoting all-male prayer groups (although Mark Driscoll might be), only concerned about ones which in practice have become all-female. In my church there are some wonderful female prayer warriors, as well as some male ones, but I am the only man in the not at all touchy-feely prayer group I sometimes attend.

  5. Peter Kirk

    Another point here: I understand that touchy-feely type prayer meetings (meditation, not mediation, Pam!) can be understood as rather feminine, although some men like them, and some women hate them. I’m sure they have a place in the church, and I would not want to close them down. But many men, and some women, have been put off prayer meetings because there is too much of this kind of thing and not enough active focused prayer. So let’s make sure we also have prayer meetings of the latter type. Hopefully they will be more attractive to men as well as some women, not because they are intrinsically more masculine, and not because they are for men only, but because they meet the need of God’s work for active intercessory prayer.

  6. PamBG

    Yes, I spelled ‘contemplation’ incorrectly too. :-)
    I take your point. I think it’s a matter of personal preference, actually. Which is why I don’t actually have too much time for trying to inject gender-stereotypical behaviours into church.
    I can safely say that I’ve never been a member of a church that had a meditation or contemplation group, nor do I lead a church that has one. It’s always ‘Oh Lord we just really wanna pray that…’ and telling God what to do.
    If you ever find one of those touchy-feely places, let me know! :-D

  7. PamBG

    Just a thought.
    I actually deliberately joined an Ignatian prayer group which is, needless to say, not part of any of my churches. It meets in Birmingham at the Jesuit residence.
    OK, there are more women than men, but the chap who organises it works as a personal trainer. So that’s a stereotype out the window.


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